Retroactive - June 18 2009 09:09 PM

Integrity in general seems to me like a depreciable asset rapidly approaching the end of its useful life…

...Sorry for getting carried away but yes its disappointing to know that people at the beginning of their careers would resort to such tactics to land a job. I shudder to think what they’ll end up doing if even some of these ‘cheats’ end up as CFOs,CEOs, Partners in Audit firms in the future.

And so say all of us (two).

make that 3!

4!

A lot of what I read and hear seems to show many students willing to do anything to get a job. It’s not worth it.

I was tempted to exagerate my foreign language ability when completing the application for my current job. I’d done German to A-level equivalent, but that was 15+ years previously, The form had a particular section on foreign languages and a tick box for level of ability which led to the temptation.

I decided it was not worth it, either:

1. I get found out at interview and don’t get the job (and possibly others as people do talk to other people in the same industry/specialisation)

2. I get the job, get excited then get found out before starting after handing in my notice, or worse still after starting. How do you explain that away on your CV, never mind how do you pay the bills?

In addition to 1 or 2, ACCA get notified and I get struck off closing many doors, and meaning a waste of time studying and passing exams. Most professional bodies (not just accountancy) ask and check if you have been struck off anywhere else.

So I resisted the temptation, and landed a great job. It was even better knowing it was solely on merit not through lies. Even if there had been no chance of being found out, I still wouldn’t have done it.

My first boss, a brilliant manager and one of two people on the first interview panel, not only was fluent in German but had undertaken his PhD at a German University. So it would have definitely been the first scenario above.

The_Horse - June 19 2009 04:39 AM

Retroactive - June 18 2009 09:09 PM

Integrity in general seems to me like a depreciable asset rapidly approaching the end of its useful life…

...Sorry for getting carried away but yes its disappointing to know that people at the beginning of their careers would resort to such tactics to land a job. I shudder to think what they’ll end up doing if even some of these ‘cheats’ end up as CFOs,CEOs, Partners in Audit firms in the future.

And so say all of us (two).

5!

I’m glad to see that the ‘Disgusted with the Current Status of Integrity’ club is expanding.

To begin I’d like to apologise to everyone for not having read all of the posts on this thread before making my opinion on ‘Integrity’ earlier.

Having gone through the vast majority of them now, I think I probably shouldn’t have read them (just kidding).However I’d just like to clarify that Integrity is not just about 1st time passes on your resume, it revolves around everything we do and its who we are.

@Alamode: I live in the same country as you do friend and have worked for a so-called Big 4 Firm and have gone through the whole interview thing. The point I don’t understand is what your friends think they’ll achieve even if somehow by lying/cheating they get into a Big 4. The way I see it, if they want to build their career on lies/deceit that’s their choice.

I am light years away from being a role model of any sort but I decided to tell the interviewer in the audit firm that I got a barely passed grade in my A levels and that I didn’t get though another accountancy exam in the first go (both because of personal cicumstances - parent passing away a month before my A-level exams and typhoid in case of the latter ). I repeated those facts when I applied for a job after completing my training period. I got selected in both cases (Divine Intervention in my opinion) but irrespective of the outcome I was satisfied after both interviews that I was being honest with myself - which was all that mattered to me.

@ The Horse/Reverend: First of all congratulations (belated as they are) on clearing your exams in the 1st go. While I appreciate your passion towards cracking down on cheats/liars I really don’t think measures like a 1st time pass certificate serve to crack down on cheats/liars.

There’s no firm/organisation (at least in my country) that has a written policy that says they’re only going to hire first-time passes or a GPA of 4.0 or whatever standard they claim to uphold. Thats what they tell you during the interview.I’ve yet to see an HR manual containing such a provision or more importantly see it being consistently applied.Throughout my audit experience I have been amused to find companies (some of them MNCs) who print loads and loads on corporate goverance and ethics in their annual reports and are staffed by people with mediocre educational qualifications and work experience just because they know the right people.My disagreement with the 1st time pass certificate idea is that why pretend to uphold/even establish a standard which doesn’t exist in the real world.

While I think its a tremendous achievement on the part of everyone who’s passed their exams in the first go, how does passing an exam in the first go prove one person’s suitability for a position as opposed to another person who perhaps is equally if not more competent could not get through in the first attempt due to personal circumstances.

I know a number of people who throughout their audit careers used every trick in the book to while away/breeze though their training period so that they could focus on their numerous professional exams while really not bothering about their audit work which had to be shared by the rest of the team. Yes they got through their exams in their first attempt (thanks to the lax supervision throughut their training) but were they honest to their audit work during that time? Where’s the integrity with such 1st time passes?

Sorry for blabbing away - in my opinion more self-regulation is required because at the end of the day its the individual choices that we make that shape the society/world that we live in.

We need a thread with a vote whether or not you would lie about 1st times passes.

I believe the % would be quite low, and thats always going to be the way with human nature. And because of that I’d imagine most companies would require proof!

Still sounds like a stupid rule to me, theres many factors that make a good accountant.

Money - August 31 2010 02:02 PM

We need a thread with a vote whether or not you would lie about 1st times passes.

I believe the % would be quite low, and thats always going to be the way with human nature. And because of that I’d imagine most companies would require proof!

Still sounds like a stupid rule to me, theres many factors that make a good accountant.

Where I live and work this question has never been asked,even Big 4s don’t ask this question as long as you’ve passed it’s fine for them.So stop wasting your time and start looking for a work and don’t forget if asked you should tell them the truth as there’s no point lying.

DRAGON - August 31 2010 06:50 PM

Money - August 31 2010 02:02 PM

We need a thread with a vote whether or not you would lie about 1st times passes.

I believe the % would be quite low, and thats always going to be the way with human nature. And because of that I’d imagine most companies would require proof!

Still sounds like a stupid rule to me, theres many factors that make a good accountant.

Where I live and work this question has never been asked,even Big 4s don’t ask this question as long as you’ve passed it’s fine for them.So stop wasting your time and start looking for a work and don’t forget if asked you should tell them the truth as there’s no point lying.

Why am I wasting my time?

At what point did I say I wanted to lie?

What part of my post implies any or that?

Or that I’m looking for a job?

Money - August 31 2010 07:14 PM

DRAGON - August 31 2010 06:50 PM

Money - August 31 2010 02:02 PM

We need a thread with a vote whether or not you would lie about 1st times passes.

I believe the % would be quite low, and thats always going to be the way with human nature. And because of that I’d imagine most companies would require proof!

Still sounds like a stupid rule to me, theres many factors that make a good accountant.

Where I live and work this question has never been asked,even Big 4s don’t ask this question as long as you’ve passed it’s fine for them.So stop wasting your time and start looking for a work and don’t forget if asked you should tell them the truth as there’s no point lying.

Why am I wasting my time?

At what point did I say I wanted to lie?

What part of my post implies any or that?

Or that I’m looking for a job?

Most of the people who ask this question are jobseekers who have to justify their first passes or not,because if you’re working you don’t care about first or second passes….you care about qualifying period.

DRAGON - August 31 2010 09:21 PM

Most of the people who ask this question are jobseekers who have to justify their first passes or not,because if you’re working you don’t care about first or second passes….you care about qualifying period.

My point exactly, I didn’t ask any questions in my original post.

Which is why I’m baffled at what you’re trying to get at.